Tuesday, September 25, 2007

The Confession

Yes !!! , I finally told my parents that i am an atheist. I have been waiting for this moment for years. My bro joined me halfway during the confession. For him it was more of a final clarification because he had already given strong hints to my parents.

It started with a call from one of my relatives after reading my blog. Although she is a devout Christian, she was really open to the idea of atheism. She was of the opinion that i am having these thoughts because my life has been pretty decent and that i would start believing in the existence of god once i have a particular "experience" that would, sort of, bring me back on track. I said i am eagerly waiting for that "experience". This call and such an open conversation was very unexpected and i really enjoyed it. Since she was close to my mom, i asked her if she could talk to my mom about me being an atheist. She agreed. I informed my bro. He said that a phone call wont do and an in-person talk would be better. So i asked him to request her to go and have a personal talk with my mom.

That weekend, i was planning to go home to mumbai as usual. I was excited by the fact that by the time i reach home, she would have conveyed the information to my mom and i was contemplating my mom's reactions to it. But then somehow she couldn't talk to mom and i had to do the job on my own. But, my bro was not so excited about it. He said "You'll talk to mom and go back to pune. I am the one who is gonna be at home. I have to deal with mom's reactions. Why do u want to do this so early?" I said "Its already too late. This should have been done long back".

So, it was clear now. i had to do it on my own. i decided to take help of my colleague, an atheist.Not just because he is an atheist(who had already told his parents about it) but mainly because he is damn good at putting things in the right words. So, after our company update meeting on friday, the three of us, me, him and another colleague(a theist), had a discussion about this. i told him the things that i wanted to convey to my mom and asked him how to put it properly considering the fact that my mom is a little close minded and orthodox, at least when it comes to religion. So he said "doing it gradually is the key thing. be slow, it wont happen in a day. you need to give hints and then talk about it." I listened and listened till he was done. He was so good at it that the other colleague said "you should have been a politician dude!".

I finally reached mumbai and my mom didn't even have a hint that i was gonna.... . Ate an awesome lunch with fish and other dishes prepared in coconut oil, yum yum. I was somehow gathering the courage to do IT. my parents went for an afternoon nap. mom somehow woke up early and started reading a newspaper. she asked me what was the 'vishesham' (Malayalam for 'special news/happenings') in pune. i said everything was fine. then it started. I don't remember the entire conversation but it went something like this.

"Mom, i have something to say to you. but, you have to promise me that you will listen to it carefully and think over it before coming to any conclusions or making any decisions.
I am not comfortable with going to the church, being part of the rituals and the prayers.
I have lots of doubts regarding these rituals, prayers and abt god. participating in them is only meaningful only if u agree with them and understand them. "

"Since when did you have these doubts?"

"Since years ma, may be when i started with my engineering. thats almost 4 yrs. I have been going to church, standing for evening prayers, only for you because i love you ma and i didn't want to hurt you. I was scared of telling you this because i didn't know how you would react. Do u know why i hesitated coming to mumbai on every weekend? because i knew i would have to participate in these rituals against my wishes. i wanted to come home at least on alternate weekends, but this is what made me not to. "

"So you don't believe in god?"

"As per my current knowledge and understanding, no. But the moment i am convinced that there is a "god", i'll be back. I am an adult and i am completely responsible for my own decisions. You don't have to worry about me ma, you know i am not gonna become a 'bad' guy . you know that, the way you have raised me, thats not gonna happen. Why do u care about what the world has to say? What we should care about is how much we understand each other as a family. I am not disrespecting your beliefs or asking you to follow my path. I just want you to accept mine. And its not that i am the only one who is having these doubts. Do u know that some of my friends back in college days were atheists and agnostics? in the world atleast 10% of the people are atheists. statistics doesnt matter anyways, i would have been an atheist even if i was the only one on the planet."

she cried a little here n there in between the conversation.

I also asked for her most convincing argument for the existence of god. i don't remember exactly what she said and what i said. In fact, we even discussed some of the questions that i had put forth in my "email to god" post. my bro also gave in some inputs midway. finally it was over.

but there was a problem. my dad still didn't know about this. he was still in his siesta. We(me n my bro) didn't attend the evening/night family prayer. My dad thought we were sleeping and hence we didn't attend. but i was doing something with my comp, he comes and asks me.

"Why didnt u attend the prayer?"

" i have told mom abt it. ask her"

"no, you tell me."

"i am not comfortable...."

"So you don't believe in God?".

"no, not currently".(damn, whatever happened to doing things gradually)

"So, you have made up your mind with this decision"

"Dad, its based on my current knowledge and might change later on"

"So, you have finally decided to choose a path to your doom"

""

He was visibly very upset. I didn't talk to him. Just before he went to bed I said,

"Dad, i want to talk to you about this. can we talk tomorrow."

"ok, go and sleep now."

My mom then had a talk with him before sleep i guess.There was no talk on the next day(sunday). I didn't goto church with my parents and my relatives asked me why. I said "i dont want to." and then there was the usual "advice" session. i managed to cut it short by saying a "hmm" to all that they said. after that, it was back to normal. phew, what an "experience".

14 comments:

The inner voice said...

i just happened to read ur blog.... was a bit shocking for me to see this side of urs... but i guess there will be some time when u will be defeated of all ur futile arguements...TIME WILL PROVE U THE EXISTENCE OF GOD... and trust me by the time u agree with it it will be too late and all u will be able to wish is that no other fool would ever turn into an atheist

Jc said...

i bow before you...

Jc said...

the inner voice,
why threaten him? are you consoling yourself that such a time will come? if what you say is true, do you actually need to say it? i say that if you fully and completely believed in god, you wouldnt have made this statement. understand my statement, i have mentioned that your belief should be FULL and COMPLETE.
PS: if you did truly believe in god, you wouldnt have stopped until you found him.

The inner voice said...

to another 'sorry' person jc,

I said what i said because i wanted that this person mend his ways before it is too late. i just dunno how will anyone ever be able to get things into ur hard skulls. People who believe in god do not need to find him. He makes his presence felt for them whenever they need him. And just becoz there are certain fools around challenging his existence, he does not need to come and show off himself like some hollywood superstar. He is very much there for his devotees. Ur 'sorry' frnd said in his email to god that why does god not eliminate the atheist sect of people. Do u thnk god is a hitler to do this sort of thing??. And he also said that why does god let his followers get killed in natural calamities. Every existing living organism is subject to its KARMA by the virtue of which it reaps happiness and sorrow in its life. Even god was once a normal being who by the means of his gr8 deeds achieved the state of salvation.
Ur diseased frnd thinks that if we pray to god, we are his slaves. IF WE PRAY TO GOD, WE DO NOT BECOME HIS SLAVES. WE PRAY TO HIM BECAUSE WE ARE HIS CHILDREN (JUST LIKE WE PRAY OUR PARENTS BY TOUCHING THEIR FEET). WE PRAY TO HIM NOT SO THAT HE MAY SAVE US FROM ALL OUR DIFFICULTIES. WE PRAY TO HIM SO THAT HE MAY GIVE US THE STRENGTH TO SURVIVE IN OUR DIFFICULTIES.. Who says that if god exists then he should provide us all with a supreme state of 'happiness and peace' so that none of us is ever in misery. He is not the one who grants salvation, BUT THE ONE WHO SHOWS US THE ROAD TO SALVATION

Jc said...

the inner voice,

"I said what i said because i wanted that this person mend his ways before it is too late. i just dunno how will anyone ever be able to get things into ur hard skulls"
- is that a threat? given by whom? you? are you gods messenger? if god is as great as you believe him to be, why would it matter to him if somebody believed in him or not. to quote manoj - "are there different set of rules?" you mean to say that he will ensue harm if he doesnt uphold YOUR belief AND that what he is doing is wrong.

"People who believe in god do not need to find him"
"He is very much there for his devotees"
- you sure? thats seems to suit you very conviniently. either way, if that was the case, why the need for rites and rituals, why the need to pray? (plz dont tell me you do it solely when you want something. that would make you gods spoilt brat wouldnt it? and of course not to thank him (read please him). if god is just he wouldnt be partial just because somebody flatters him). any other reasons to pray?

" i just dunno how will anyone ever be able to get things into ur hard skulls"
- why do you want to? whats in it for you? plz dont tell me you're doin it for our good. if you were selfless, it would show in virtually every aspect of your life. AND you wouldnt be so critical about it. (i mean no threats, no name calling, and no sarcasm)

"And just becoz there are certain fools around challenging his existence, he does not need to come and show off himself like some hollywood superstar" - why are they fools? because they dont believe what you believe? or did god personally appoint you to tell everybody else.(i dont think so). well you are right that he doesnt need to show himself(at least in corporal form), but if he did want ppl to remeber him he would have found other ways...

"Ur 'sorry' frnd said in his email to god that why does god not eliminate the atheist sect of people. Do u thnk god is a hitler to do this sort of thing??. And he also said that why does god let his followers get killed in natural calamities." - so he is there for his devotees, but ignores the other ppl? same point again.

"Every existing living organism is subject to its KARMA by the virtue of which it reaps happiness and sorrow in its life"
- only living? you undermine gods power once again.

"Even god was once a normal being who by the means of his gr8 deeds achieved the state of salvation"
- ??? which religon are you following? i dont recall any religon propogating that, then again if there is, enlighten me.

i can more or less agree with your last lines... but what i dont understand is why the venegance? why so peeved of at someone who doesnt believe in god?

i have met other people who believe in god (godmen, priests etc.). but none of them believed in criticizing other people. not one of them.

infact i have read some books, autobiographies on saints and sages in india. they came across me as peaceful people who would explain rather than lash out. some of them were even sarcastic, but they never said a non believer would endure the wrath of god.

i dont support manoj's belief completely, but i dont stop him from beleiving his own. at the most i can discuss with him, point out errors in his belief and he can do the same to mine.
i ask of you to see things more open mindedly. you are stright forward rejecting his theory. you are not giving solid reasons for disbelieving his theory, neither giving reasons to believe yours.
post another comment, explain to me why what he is doing is wrong. and why my explanations arent valid either.

PS: btw i do believe in god, just not the way you do. dont tell me my belief is wrong because i dont embrace your views.

Anonymous said...

JC why dun u start ur own blog...its too much to read in the comments section

The inner voice said...

"you mean to say that he will ensue harm if he doesnt uphold YOUR belief AND that what he is doing is wrong."

"if god is just he wouldnt be partial just because somebody flatters him). any other reasons to pray?"

"if that was the case, why the need for rites and rituals, why the need to pray?"

"so he is there for his devotees, but ignores the other ppl? same point again."


GOD is niether flattered by anyone nor does he harm any of his non-believers. GOD is in what we call in science in a state of 'perfect equilibrium'. Any help from GOD when asked for in a troubled situation comes from his angels.

The angels to GOD are also spiritually powerful souls but its just that they are not in a state of 'equilibrium' which is why they are pleased if people faithfully pray to god for help and thus help the 'needy'. They are the helpers..

I already stated previously that why do we pray GOD. Tell me one thing, u must be idolising someone in ur life such as 'someday i want to be like bill gates' or any other thing...

Same thing applies to GOD also. The state of perfection that GOD is in is something which is to be idolised and thats why at least i pray him. GOD is a treasure of virtues and we have to try and inculcate those virtues in our lives..thts we i pray him


"but if he did want ppl to remeber him he would have found other ways..."

GOD never wanted people to remember him. e.g. Gandhiji never wanted people to remember him. He was remembered by the people for his deeds.

- only living? you undermine gods power once again.

I guess only living beings are the one which have emotions and can 'feel'. At least thts wat science says.so....


"which religon are you following? i dont recall any religon propogating that, then again if there is, enlighten me."

Well its really not imp. to knw tht. but still i am a 'jain'.

Well i will sign off from here on as this is time consuming for me.

Wat i would only like to say that is please do not always try to always needle ur 'smart brains' into everything. There should be something called as 'faith' in our lives. Why has human kind never questioned a mother's love for her child?? Why cant even for a split second we think that if sometime our mother has to choose between her life and ours she will choose hers?? The answer lies in 'faith'..

'Man' may have manipulated things but GOD still remains the same. He is the conscience, the morality and the faith within us............

Jc said...

the inner voice,

this is gonna be short and sweet. i have no issues with you believing what you do. i only asked you to be more tolerant of others beliefs...

anonymous,

this topic wasnt initiated by me. i just responded top manojs blog, (which i usually have never do to anothers blog.) anyways, your point is taken.

PS: I thought this blog didnt allow anonymous posts, unless manoj it was you...?

Anonymous said...

Just require a clarification.
Do the atheists in this discussion believe that there is no God, Believe that there is no God in these religions,Believe that God cannot be found..
this discussion has dis-integrated to become some kinda name-calling between the religious folk and the atheists..
!

Anonymous said...

and just to clarify, i have some degree of faith in God.. Not in religion not in rituals.. these are ALL man made.

Gouri said...

Seems like you have had too much of "GOD" in your life which has caused you to repel it now...

Take it easy :)

God doesn't expect nething frm you.. Its we who choose to believe in him n expect rewards in return :)

Unknown said...

@bystander

"Do the atheists in this discussion believe that there is no God, Believe that there is no God in these religions,Believe that God cannot be found.."

I don't know about others but i don't agree with the god theory,that is, I don't think god exists. As i read more about the reasoning behind atheism and theism, I am well prepared for a change in my understanding.

"This discussion has dis-integrated to become some kinda name-calling between the religious folk and the atheists"

All I expected was honest, frank and open replies from people. The nature of the the topic itself might be responsible for the "name-calling" you are talking about. But its quite an interesting read. Trust me, Its very difficult to get people to talk on this.


@Gouri

"Seems like you have had too much of "GOD" in your life which has caused you to repel it now"

Atheism was a gradual process for me. It started with me not understanding and hence getting bored of the Christian rituals like going to the church, singing and saying prayers, etc. Then I was of the opinion that its man kind thats making the mistake by interpreting god in various ways each coming out with their rules or religion. After some time, I was of the opinion that its not possible for mankind to find out if God existed or not , its an unknown. The term for this philosophical view is called "agnosticism". Then i explored more. The internet helped me a lot. I put down the questions and doubts that i had and later on realized that there are so many people in the world having these doubts and questions and much more. After that, I was convinced I had atheism within me all the time.

"God doesn't expect nething from you.. Its we who choose to believe in him n expect rewards in return "

For me, atheism was not a result of god not giving me what i wanted even when i prayed or reasons like that. The whole concept seemed flawed and inconsistent to me.

Anonymous said...

well!
seems to me like uve become disillusioned with God and hence concluded that he doesnt exist..

u need to clearly define in your head if u are agnostic ( ie assume that God cannot be found/Confirmed to xist et al) or u are dead certain that there is no God ( ie atheist)..

because for everything in this universe u seem unable to comprehend.. like pain suffering .. rituals et al.. u seem to blame God for not being unclear.. but then that doesnt prove the opposite as true does it.. for example while studying u may not understand something.. maybe half the world doesnt understand it,. but thats good enough to say that the thing isnt true..??..right..

like i said before rituals and all are man's idea of God.. very few people do know God but most people believe there is one.. y u may ask...

its a belief we are born with is what i beleive..
so plz revert with if u feel the same way.. coz i started off as a self righteoeus religious fool.. and ended up finding God..so maybe we can discuss this further..

Unknown said...

"well!seems to me like uve become disillusioned with God and hence concluded that he doesnt exist.."

yes, God is an illusion and I dont wanna be a part of it.

"u need to clearly define in your head if u are agnostic ( ie assume that God cannot be found/Confirmed to xist et al) or u are dead certain that there is no God ( ie atheist).."

From what I understand, as of now, I am certain that god doesn't exist. But, I am open to a change in my understanding IF and WHEN that happens.

"because for everything in this universe u seem unable to comprehend.. like pain suffering .. rituals et al.. u seem to blame God for not being unclear"

I am not blaming god. Blaming god would mean i accept that an entity called god exists. All I am saying is that the god theory is just like any other theory and should be treated like one. But most of us accept it as a fact.

"for example while studying u may not understand something.. maybe half the world doesn't understand it,. but thats good enough to say that the thing isnt true..??..right.."

Yup, there are so many stuff that i have "studied" that i still don't understand but I do see their practical applications. For e.g. I still don't understand how complex electronic circuits work. But I know that these circuits power my computer and they work when i switch it on. I don't see ANY practical evidence or application of the God Theory.

"its a belief we are born with is what i beleive.."

What i think is that god is a good story cooked up by people so that they can point every unknown or unpredictable at it. It might be true that we might have an inborn inclination to believe in god because of all the unanswered mysteries of the universe.I think its more of a temporary answer to satisfy us and convert the unknowns to pseudo-knowns.